What happened to personal pronouns?

[thismaz]

Did the rules change, when I was asleep? How does anybody write a sentence like this - 'She has always performed well in the time she has been with ourselves'? That was in the reference letter from the employer of someone I interviewed for a job yesterday. For goodness sake, the word is 'us'!

And while I'm on one of my periodic language rants...

The English language has lots of words, and very, very few of them are perfect synonyms. It's what makes the language such fun, the fact that there are specific words that allow for subtle nuances of meaning.

I mean, when you appreciate something, it is a personal emotion experienced by you. When you are appreciative, you demonstrate your appreciation to the object or to the world in general. That's different, right?

I know that I’m fighting a losing battle with this one, but really, disinterested is not a synonym for uninterested. If you are not interested in something, you are uninterested. If you are disinterested, it means that you don't have a vested interest in it. It has occasional overtones of being altruistic.

And I know the language is constantly evolving, but some things just sound wrong. Why do I have to even say it? - dragged is the past tense of drag, NOT drug. A drug is a medicinal or other chemical compound that has an effect on the workings of the body. Using drug in place of dragged makes you sound illiterate.
(NOTE OF CLARIFICATION - I am using the word illiterate, not as an insult, but as it is defined - 1: having little or no education; especially: unable to read or write 2 a: showing or marked by a lack of familiarity with language and literature b: violating approved patterns of speaking or writing. Ref: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illiterate)

/rant
*sighs* I think I must be getting old. I feel like I should be swirling my brandy glass and saying "When I was young..."

Comments

[kazzy-cee.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately there is a very large influence of US conjugations which are making their way over here (I particularly hate 'dove' instead of 'dived'). I also get very tired of the lack of 'ly' on verbs and as for the latest iTouch advert where it's the "funnest".... ack!!!!

*joins you in the library with the brandy glass*

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*passes you the decanter*

[mwrgana.livejournal.com]

Don't bother with a glass or anything, just pass me the bottle.

And what about inquire and enquire being used, especially in crime novels which should know better, as synonyms?

A murder enquiry is: "Was someone murdered?"

A murder inquiry is the investigation into a murder.

I think the problem is, in crime novels, that police make enquiries in the course of an inquiry.
But the difference is so basic and, as I read so many crime novels, my teeth are wearing down.
Perhaps publishers should make enquiries as to how well educated their editors are and inquire into their suitability for the job.

And talking of annoying American-speak, what about "big of a deal" and "very fun"?

Are you a member of... excuse me while I go to find it... yes, riters_r_us ?

There's another one as well but I can't find it right now. rru is good though.

[mwrgana.livejournal.com]

P.S. I love your quoting of a dictionary that can't even spell, LOL!

*pats brand new Chamberlains*

I bought me the new dictionary the other week because I'm so sick of not being able to find an English dictionary on line. (Well, not a free one, anyway.) Shame you can't cut and paste from a printed book *g*

And then what did I find? My brand new Roget's Thesaurus is in American! An American publication with even the price, on the back cover, in dollars, and yet purchased from Amazon UK. What? They got a job-lot cheap because no other bookseller in Britain wanted them?
*more grinding of teeth*

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

With you on the pronouns for sure.
My line manager is constantly saying "yourselves" instead of "you" and "ourselves" instead of "us".

And now they're trying to get rid of the apostrophe!

Bastards!

[draconin.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree with you completely! I get so tired of people who seem unable to cope with the simplest language, let alone anything at all complex.

I had a massive argument with a fellow teacher some years back who sent back a report I'd written that contained the sentence (roughly) "If Johnny were to work harder his grades would improve". This *English* teacher had crossed out 'were' and written 'was'.

When I pointed out that it was the subjunctive case and that 'were' was correct, the reponse was "What's the subjunctive case?". I took it to her head of department, who had the gall to tell me that I was right but "no-one really cares these days"!

::Bangs head on desk::

The most annoying part of it was that this was back in the days when we wrote reports by hand and she had crossed out in pen. The entire report had to be re-written; not just my comment but all those by the other teachers!

PS. You may well have seen it before but if not... have you come across "The The Impotence of Proofreading by Taylor Mali (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OonDPGwAyfQ)"

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*drags the cask out from under the table and rolls it towards you*
Thanks for the rec to that community. I just joined.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Bugger. You know I can't spell for toffee. What word is misspelt?
I know, I would love to find a free link to Chambers Dictionary online.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

And now they're trying to get rid of the apostrophe!
*laughs* I know, I heard about that on the radio, last night. They were talking about taking the apostrophe out of King's Lynn, weren't they? Crazy people.

[mwrgana.livejournal.com]

None of your words - just lots of Webster's words *g. Like my American thesaurus which thinks that manoeuvre is spelt maneuvre (how the hell is that pronounced, anyway, with the OO sound of the 'o' taken out?)

And thank you - Chambers, not Chamberlains *head desk*. Perhaps that's down to my subconcious - it decides to get it wrong because I'm just sulking cause I can't afford the complete Oxford!

[mwrgana.livejournal.com]

You just joined? Ha ha, - well done. Glad to be of service.:-)

*grabs cask* cheers!

[mwrgana.livejournal.com]

"What's the subjunctive case?"

Just as well there's been no "dumbing down" of education, then, isn't it?

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*joins you in banging head on desk* That's awful. When teachers stop caring, how can we be surprised that the kids don't learn. I don't mind people bending, or even, occasionally, breaking the rules, as long as I believe that they are doing it deliberately.
Thank you for that link. I hadn't seen it. It was very funny.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

And thank you - Chambers, not Chamberlains
That wasn't a correction. I assumed there was another dictionary called Chamberlains. It sounds like a very plausible name for one.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Cheers!

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*goes to look up the definition of subjunctive case*
Oh, right. Okay. So that's what it's called.
*grins at you*

[draconin.livejournal.com]

I assure you that most teachers still care! :-) Unfortunately in Australia (and I think the US too) there was a trend about thirty years ago towards no longer teaching grammar. The theory was that you didn't teach it by 'rules' you taught it by osmosis. That all they had to do was read and write sufficiently and they'd take it all in without having to have it explained. Needless to say, it didn't work. We're now paying the price doubly because of the teachers coming through who were taught that way and have not since been fortunate enough to come across a lecturer who refused to kowtow and, instead, insisted they learn the rules.

If you've not come across Taylor Mali before then you're in for a real treat. Try "Like, You Know (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNIBV87wV4)" and his others!

[draconin.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was having a lot of trouble convincing her that I was correct until I finally started whistling the tune to "If I were a rich man (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc)" from Fiddler on the Roof and, when she recognised it, said "Now, tell me the lyrics".

The double take was great!

In fact, the only reason I was even aware of the subjunctive case (and most other grammatical info) was because of learning German. The language teachers most definitely believed in teaching grammar!

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

I assure you that most teachers still care!
Oh, I do know that's true, but that Head of English you quoted... not so much. I guess they'd given up.

there was a trend about thirty years ago towards no longer teaching grammar
In the UK too. I'm a product of that education system. But I know people who don't have a single book in their houses, so how it was supposed to work for them, is a mystery to me.

I've just spent three quarters of an hour watching Taylor Mali on YouTube. Thank you so much for the links.

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

LOL

You sing it!! I'm telling you, the things I see grading high school papers is quite enough to turn my hair gray.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*g* I can imagine. Or maybe I'm glad that I can't. *passes you a spare song sheet*

[lit-gal.livejournal.com]

OH YEAH! And now they're trying to fix that by shoving worksheets in kids' faces without ever requiring them to actually USE correct grammar in their papers because that would take too much time to grade. *headdesk* I sometimes hate my colleagues.

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

I'm right there with you. Unfortunately, I find myself old enough that I've begun losing words and must sometimes make do with imperfect synonyms because I can't freaking remember the word I want! Arghh! It's very, very frustrating.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*pulls over another rocking chair and hands you a spare pair of carpet slippers*
I know exactly what you mean. I have nothing against synonyms. Finding the exact word is satisfying, but there are usually others that do the job well enough. My real problem is with people using words that have quite different meaning, as if they were synonyms. *g* We can sit here on the porch and lament the loss of words and their improper use, together, if you like.

[sunnyd-lite.livejournal.com]

I learned English tenses by studying French and Latin, never in English class and my teachers LIKED grammar.

And I need drugs when I read drug *holds out tea cup for a top up*

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*adds a slug of brandy to your tea cup*

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Oh, but if they told the truth, they're afraid no one would apply for such a boring job *g*
Ah, Chinese, or any of the non-alphabetic languages, that must create a whole different way of thinking - symbolism and pictures instead of letters. A bit like sign language, I imagine.
My first taming story was a journey through a single dictionary entry, so I understand your fascination.
*hugs you back*

[sparrow2000.livejournal.com]

That was rant #4752 *g*

I know what you mean. I remember Mr Sparrow using 'engender' when he was talking to someone at work and the girl laughed because she thought he'd made the word up. So he had to explain what it meant and when she still didn't believe him, he finished up showing her the word in the dictionary!

I do love thesaurus dipping. Getting just the right word is always such a buzz and it's what makes the English language fun as well as interesting.

Off now....
me xx

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

Oh, I knew exactly what you meant. I just have high frustration with the fact that, these days, I know there is a word that means precisely what I mean and part of the time I can't remember it if I bludgeon my head over it for half a day. It's very, oh what's the word ....

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

I know *sympathetic expression* I feel your pain. *g* Being a fellow sufferer, I couldn't do anything but.
And then the 'right' word comes to you, just as you're falling asleep at night, long after it could do any good. *g*

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Only 4752? Huh! I'm slipping. It's February already. *g*
Have fun, hon.

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

How proud I am of my 7 year-old daughter who already knows how to use they're, their, and there correctly! And also its and it's! That's what you get when your mama is a grammar nazi.

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Good for her. It's certainly a theme here - teach your children, or they won't learn.
Not sure I could even read at 7. *g*

[ayoub.livejournal.com]

I just strolled over this way from swweeks' LJ, and I saw this post... I just had to comment with this icon because I thought you'd appreciate it :D

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

*grins* Yes, thanks. That's funny.