thismaz: (Dove)
[personal profile] thismaz
Because I was reading a story that I really enjoyed *except* that the author consistently used 'that' instead of 'who', when describing people, eg Merlin was revealed as a sorcerer that had lied to hide his secret.
If Merlin was a table, fine, but Merlin is a person and so should be who.
'That' and 'which' can be difficult, but 'that' and 'who'? It's okay in dialogue, but not in narrative.

And, while I'm on a roll, there are other words and phrases that I wish I could avoid:

He/she can't help feeling, always make me ask why they were trying to.
In fact, why do fanfic characters always *have* to do so many things? -- He had to smile at her joke -- Was he fighting the urge, until it proved too strong for him? Why doesn't he simply smile at her joke? Why this constant need for compulsion?


Why, oh why, do people insist on describing characters by their hair colour? It's an old bitch, I know, but the practice is *so* common.
If you don't do that in real life, you shouldn't do it in fiction. Do you ever think of your best friend as 'the redhead', 'the blonde', or 'the brunette'? You might not always think of them by their name, but if you were to choose a characteristic it would be the one that is most important to your image of them.
Few things will make me close a tab more quickly.

And words:

Instinctual instead of instinctive - both are valid words, both are adjective forms of the word instinct, but a quick web search came up with the following definitions:
Instinctual - Of, relating to, or derived from instinct.
Instinctive - 1. Of, relating to, or prompted by instinct. 2. Arising from impulse; spontaneous and unthinking:
It seems to me that most often it is the second definition of instinctive that is intended, or possibly the prompted by instinct one. So the question is: why do I see is instinctual ousting instinctive, so often? Is this one of those differences between British and American English?

'Gotten' is another one. Has this word totally replaced 'got' in American mainstream vocabulary? It jars on me something horrible (as that construction probably jars on others) and I have closed tabs because of it.
It's not quite as bad as 'drug', as the past tense of drag ('he drug it across the floor', instead of 'he dragged it across the floor') and I know I'll adapt, eventually, as I always do. But just at this minute, right now, in the present? It's driving me crazy.

The use of insults in fic has been exercising me for a while.

Thinking about Merlin fic and the use of the word prat, for example. I have seen so many instances where it jarred on me.
Maybe it's when the writer uses the word as a standalone, that it gets me? 'The prat didn't see what was in front of his nose'.
Like in the Buffy fandom when Spike thinks, 'the git obviously didn't understand'. It just doesn't sound right. If he'd thought, 'the stupid git obviously didn't understand', I would have no problem.
I think it's because, if it stands alone, it is being used as if it was the character's name, rather than as an insult (or as well as an insult). If Merlin thought that the stupid prat didn't see what was in front of his nose, it would be a piece of satisfying, internal venting on Merlin's part.
Alternatively, it might just be over-use. Like Spike calling Xander, whelp.
Or it could be wrong tone of voice. On first meeting, Merlin uses the word mockingly. But later, any use of the word prat, addressed to Arthur, should contain an element of fondness, because it really didn't take him long to become loyal.
I need to check this out through more reading. Except, I probably won't feel like persisting with a story that makes me go, "Huh?" and the word always seems to turn up within the first paragraph.

This is a general rant, not just a grammar rant, so I am going to indulge myself.
In the Merlin fandom, there is a proud tradition of both modern AUs and reincarnation fic - in an AU, the writer has total freedom to use other canon characters and variants on canon storylines, and there are some wonderful examples out there that have given me hours of enjoyable reading.
However, I am cautious of reincarnation fic, because I've started reading too many that recycle all the characters, in the same relationships to each other. Theologically, if there is any purpose or reason for reincarnation, at all, a continuous recycling of the same events, seems pointless.

And then there is tone - the tone of the writing. Or more precisely, change of tone mid paragraph. Check this out as a first paragraph (details changed to avoid recognition, because I am not trying to ridicule anybody here, just things I've seen written):
Arthur scratched his head as he padded barefoot across his room. It was very early, the sun wasn't even up, but he'd ordered an early training session with the knights. He knew he'd have to dress himself because Merlin was always late coming with his breakfast. There was no chance he'd arrive on time today. Needless to say it shocked the hell out of him when he pulled open his closet, to find it empty.
I could kind of manage the first part, but when I got to that last sentence... No. Tab closed. Click back. Find something else to read.


Am I being intolerant? Yes, I guess I am. But hey, I have enough trouble finding the time to read good fic. If I read the stuff that irritated me too... *g*

So, dear flisties, especially my American flisties, what are your thoughts? Does 'gotten' get to you, or do you not notice it?

What about 'drug' and 'instinctual'?

What are the things that drive you up the wall?

As always, none of these examples are prompted by anything written by anyone on my flist, so come on, you lot, you know it's good to share. Do your good deed for the day and help me feel less of a pedant. *g* Or, at least, less of a solitary pedant.

Date: 2010-08-22 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ex_peasant441
The comma use alone in the last sentence of your quote is enough to merit hanging, drawing and quartering.

Date: 2010-08-22 02:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
*laughs* Or the lack of it.

*Considers the implications of capital punishment for comma misuse*

*Considers the advantages of living in a sparsely populated world*

Date: 2010-08-23 12:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darkhavens.livejournal.com
Sparcely populated, but literate... sounds like heaven. *g*

I share your peeves and have many of my own. Militant grammarians, unite! ;)

Date: 2010-08-23 05:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
*laughs* When you put it like that.... *g*

Date: 2010-08-22 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brutti-ma-buoni.livejournal.com
Gotten is fine by me - it's an authentic old usage we've lost over here, or so I'm told, and that's good enough for me to switch off pedantry. Drug... is not.

I'm entirely with you on the hair colour. I'll accept it very occasionally in a decent fic (and oddly I can cope with 'the blonde girl' rather better than just 'the blonde').

'Couldn't help feeling' is one of those things that has never bugged me, but I now have a feeling it will... Thank you so much!

Tone... that's quite difficult. If it's done well, I think it is possible to pull off a quite different tone to the original series. (TH White's Once and Future King, come to that, has a very unArthurian tone in the early books, but works brilliantly.) It's just that done badly it is nails-on-a-blackboard bad. *shudder*

Date: 2010-08-22 02:27 pm (UTC)
quinara: Sheep on a hillside with a smiley face. (Default)
From: [personal profile] quinara
'Couldn't help feeling' is one of those things that has never bugged me, but I now have a feeling it will... Thank you so much!

Ditto! Sometimes you need variations on 'she felt blah' or whatever, but now I can see I'm going to have to look for them elsewhere...

Date: 2010-08-22 02:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
*points down to reply to Brutti* Sorry.

Date: 2010-08-22 02:52 pm (UTC)
quinara: Sheep on a hillside with a smiley face. (Default)
From: [personal profile] quinara
I'll never forgive you, Maz!!! ;)

Date: 2010-08-22 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
Oh well. *g*

Date: 2010-08-22 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
It might be, but I still don't like it in narrative. It's like seeing realise spelt with a 'z' (although that was taught in schools in this country until the middle of the last century). Realize is one of the things I have become used to in my reading. Gotten will take me a while longer.

I can cope with 'the blonde girl' rather better than just 'the blonde'
Yes, I can see that - it's a bit like my 'prat' example - it's a description, not an alternative for the character's name.

but I now have a feeling it will... Thank you so much!
*grins at you* Sorry?

It wasn't tone, per se, that I was objecting to there, rather it was the change of tone from traditional narrative, to colloquial. I have read some very funny stories that have been written in the style of that last sentence. I should have been clearer (and have now edited to be so).

Date: 2010-08-22 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trepkos.livejournal.com
not American, but when I write american characters I make a point of using "gotten" in their thoughts/dialogue because I got criticised for using "got."

Date: 2010-08-23 05:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
Oh, I totally agree. Dialogue is a different thing. If your American characters spout British words and phrases, they will not sound right.

Date: 2010-08-23 07:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] trepkos.livejournal.com
So I'm confused now - is it that "gotten" is correct in American use but that you just don't like it?
Or are people using it when they should be using "got" even if they are American?

Date: 2010-08-23 10:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
Apparently, yes, it is standard American usage. I didn't know that. I don't mind it, if an American character uses it in their speech (I think I have had Buffy say it, before now) but I don't like it in narrative. It throws me out. However, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Date: 2010-08-22 04:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] curiouswombat.livejournal.com
Aaargh for 'gotten', and 'drug'. I know gotten was acceptable English until a couple of centuries ago - but so were 'thee' and 'thou' and if they turned up in a fic they'd annoy me too...

As for 'the blonde'- the only time it is acceptable is when the character has just met three girls, with different hair colours, and has not yet been introduced to them by name!

Date: 2010-08-23 05:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
but so were 'thee' and 'thou'
Very true and very good point. Wish I'd thought of that example *g* So much better than mine.
Interestingly, [livejournal.com profile] smwright points out, below, that The past participle of "get" in American English actually is "gotten" - although it is "got" in British English. ... "Gotten" isn't a throwback that we use erroneously. It's what we use in that verb tense. Which I had suspected from a conversation with a writer I beta for, but hadn't know for certain.

Date: 2010-08-22 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bumpkin-is.livejournal.com
::checks quietly to see if she is guilty of these crimes..::

Urk, I know for a fact I am guilty of the compulsion one - mostly because in my lifetime I have lived or spent too much time around ppl who really shouldn't be encouraged with their really bad humour (my husband will actually be sitting watching TV while I am doing something on the computer and when a commercial comes on start waving his arms above his head and shouting "Hey, lookit me! Hey!" and when I reply/give him attention he just smiles and says something inane like "Hi".) as well as some ppl with fragile egos and others who will say something objectionable to 'get a conversation going'.

So other than that... 'gotten' - don't really notice it, 'drug' makes me flinch but I can ignore it. For me the irritation comes from odd word choices and the substitutions, especially when they are trying to use a word they don't really understand - I grit my teeth over: 'weary for wary', 'passed for past', 'emphatic rather than empathic'... etc.

But as I constantly tell myself - these are ppl writing with a love for the characters and bonus - FREE reading material! With the way I go through books that is all too important to really kvetch too too much. *g*

Date: 2010-08-23 05:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
I meant it when I said that none of these peeves (rant elements *g*) were prompted from my flist. And they are just things that get to me; some of my friends may advocate capital punishment but I am too aware of my own illiteracy to dare to go that far *g*

There are times when the use of 'had to' or 'couldn't help' are absolutely right, but they are phrases that are overused, I think.

[livejournal.com profile] smwright points out, below, that The past participle of "get" in American English actually is "gotten" Which I am glad to know. I had thought it was a recent introduction to American English. I hadn't realised it was official. Odd word choices can be an irritant, although I try to assume that many of the errors I see are typos, in which case (my own typing being so bad) I have to forgive them (Heee, compulsion language in my own comment reply.)

And you are right, yes, FREE READING; you have to be grateful for that. And I am. I really am.

Date: 2010-08-23 12:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] texanfan.livejournal.com
I don't know how many of these I may be guilty of. I suspect I may be guilty of gotten. There are many bad grammar usages that I will grit my teeth and press on if I recognize the person as a non-native speaker. I just think it's so brave to attempt to write in a language not your own. Others, not so much.

I'm not so keen on something I'm pretty sure is correct English. Sentences like: "For he realized that this was a bad course of action." I've come across a plethora of fics lately that use for that way in practically every paragraph and it throws me.

Date: 2010-08-23 05:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
I meant it when I said that none of these peeves were prompted from my flist and I would hesitate to use the word 'guilty' - it sounds so legalistic. I do know that the rules of grammar are more sort of guidelines (to quote Jack Sparrow) but we all have our pet irritants and LJ is such a good place to vent. *g*

Re gotten - see [livejournal.com profile] smwright's point, below that - The past participle of "get" in American English actually is "gotten" Which I am glad to know because I had assumed it was a recent introduction to American English.

Oh yes, that use of 'for' is so very formal. I suspect it is used because people have been told that there is a rule that forbids the use of 'but' to start a sentence. There is another, similar word that sometimes grates on me - 'said' when used to designate an object. It sounds so very formal, that it often feels out of place.

Date: 2010-08-23 01:41 am (UTC)
ext_33210: (Default)
From: [identity profile] mistress-tien.livejournal.com
American here, with degrees in English lit and print journalism.

That/who drives me crazy. Incorrect use of apostrophes should be punishable by death (is possession vs. plural that difficult to understand?). Use of "me" instead of "I" and vice versa should be a cane-able offense.

As far as character descriptions I have one nit-picky issue in the NCIS fandom. I hate it when Tony is called "the Italian" or "the Italian man". It doesn't bother me when Gibbs is called "a Marine", but for some reason referring to Tony's not-supported-in-canon close relationship to all things Italian makes me nuts.

Other nit-picky things:

"Towed the line", "home the edge", and incorrect use of "passed" v. "past".

On American characters written in British English:

I don't mind with the descriptions include the use of "boot" and "lift", but I can't stand it when American characters use those words (and other British specific words). Gibbs may meet someone in the lift, but he never tells someone "Take the lift".

Wow. Thanks. I needed that.

Date: 2010-08-23 06:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
Ah yes, possession and plural. I didn't go into that, this time, but I know what you mean. As for 'me' and 'I', I notice it happen most often when there are two people involved in the sentence. I was advised to mentally remove the other person, if in doubt, and see how the result sounded eg He was talking to John and I/He was talking to John and me becomes He was talking to I/He was talking to me. A practice I have noticed recently (in the last few years) is for people to 'play safe' and use 'myself' instead of either.

No, I probably wouldn't really object to Gibbs being described as 'the marine', because that is one of the most important and defining aspects of his character, but if he was described as 'the silver haired man', I would run a mile. As for Tony being described as 'the Italian man'... *stares blankly* He's no more Italian than I am *g*

Towed the line is a good one, because it is a phrase people hear, but the origin is so obscure that I can understand why is is often spelt wrongly. It's like 'Par for the course'; I have seen that as 'power for the course' and 'parr for the course' and even 'par for the cause'.

As for the use of British English in narrative... personally, I am grateful for your forbearance, since I write in British English, myself. But I do try not to put Britishisms into the mouths of my American characters.

Wow. Thanks. I needed that.
*grins* Glad to be of service.

Date: 2010-08-23 02:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smwright.livejournal.com
Huh. I find some of my American peers' comments interesting. *g* (And didn't you just know I had to weigh in on this one?)

The past participle of "get" in American English actually is "gotten" - although it is "got" in British English. There are a handful of other conjugations where the conjugate is, indeed, just different for whatever reason. "Gotten" isn't a throwback that we use erroneously. It's what we use in that verb tense. *g* Sorry. Reading British English and running across "got" sometimes throws me but not often anymore. I suppose I've been reading it long enough now that I've assimilated a lot of the differences into my schema for "English" in general. Does that make sense? However, I am very cautious in my writing and attentive to audience (to the point where I stumble over typing "got" v. "gotten" and check myself; if it's not part of the Histories, it's "gotten").

I do get annoyed by "that" when it should be "who," but I think the answer may be found in standard grammar checks, which redline "who" and auto-correct with "that" (at least over here). I've taught mine not to do so. *g* If one isn't well schooled in grammar, it's easy to think the grammar check knows best, no?

Respectfully, my dear friend, I have to disagree with you on one point (my long experience in grading papers bears you out not me; so this is just stubbornness speaking). I honestly do not think the distinction between "that" and "which" is really very difficult. *g* I prepared a document some time ago for my students that explains how to tell the difference, and it seems to have helped greatly (along with reducing 9 other pet peeves of mine in writing by students).

Speaking of "that"... that is probably my biggest pet peeve, inadvertent use of passive voice through overuse of "that." Second to that, I would say it's plurality problems within a sentence or consecutive sentences: "A person just doesn't know what they'll do until they're faced with a particular situation." Uh, no. A PERSON is singular... and needs a singular representation in each successive instance in that sentence.

But I could hijack your entire LJ with this topic. *winks*

Date: 2010-08-23 06:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
*waves* Hi. Yes, I did hope to hear from you. I'll admit that.

Thank you very much for the clarification on 'gotten'. I had sort of, kinda, suspected as much, from a conversation I had with a writer I beta for, but I hadn't know for certain.

However, I am very cautious in my writing and attentive to audience
In which you are more considerate than I. In the land of LJ, where American readers and writers are in the majority, I am guilty of stubbornly using British English and resenting the occasional, unspoken assumption that I should provide a warning for it, in my header. *g* However, I will google extensively to avoid putting Britishisms into my American characters' mouths (while individual cases do still slip through, in which case I am grateful that my flist is made up of people who will point them out so I can correct them.

You have a good point about the grammar checks. I rely heavily on the squiggly red line, because I can't spell for toffee (love the spell checker on the Firefox Google toolbar, too) but the squiggly green line should be applied with extreme caution.

Thank you for that link. The that v which distinction is one I know only because the wrong word 'feels' wrong. I didn't have a rule to help me. Now I think I might. I will have to keep in mind your advice that "That" refers to a specific object (e.g., that book), and "which" refers to an unspecified object (e.g., I’m not sure which book to choose.) and see if it helps. I have saved the document and printed it out.

I wonder whether there is a cultural aspect to your passive voice objection to that, however? When writing narrative, I will often insert 'that's into sentences because on reading them back, it feels as if there is a hole. Again, I can't think of any examples, off hand, but I will keep an eye out for it and if I come to any conclusions, I'll let you know *g*

The modern usage of the non-gender specific 'they' is an interesting one, too. I do understand your objection, but if the sex of a person is unknown, I actually prefer it to the assumptive use of 'he' *g* *backs away cautiously*

Lovely to hear from you, hon.

Date: 2010-08-24 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smwright.livejournal.com
and resenting the occasional, unspoken assumption that I should provide a warning for it, in my header. *shudders* When I read British authors (or British characters), I expect British speech. Duh.

I rely heavily on the squiggly red line, because I can't spell for toffee (love the spell checker on the Firefox Google toolbar, too) but the squiggly green line should be applied with extreme caution. *nods* And those who do otherwise do so at their own peril. To write, I agree with the professionals in the publishing world, one must have a basic grasp of grammar.

I wonder whether there is a cultural aspect to your passive voice objection to that, however? I honestly don't think so. I read plenty of fiction from all places (and scholarly non-fiction as well) that uses passive voice here and there, and sometimes everywhere, and passive voice does seem to be generally accepted. It's my personal aversion based on experience reading both types of lit (heavily laced with passive voice and not). I simply prefer the latter. I think the action more action-y and the descriptions more descriptive, the entire narrative more "show not tell." That's it, now that I've spelled it out. Passive voice = telling. Forcing oneself out of passive voice = showing, which by the by, you do very well (the showing) as does sparrow.

I wonder whether there is a cultural aspect to your passive voice objection to that, however? *laughs* Okay, you've got me here. In general, I agree with you. In an androcentric world, I prefer the grammatically incorrect "they" to the assumptive "he". However, in my profession, we're governed by APA style rules, and those take special care to avoid biased language. So, I've learned in academic writing to avoid both problems by alternating he and she. That's the more acceptable form of doing things via APA. Looked at any of my metas here, and you'll see I've done that unless a topic is generally geared towards one sex or the other, and then I typically include a disclaimer at the beginning of the discussion.

What fun language is!

Date: 2010-08-26 04:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
When I read British authors (or British characters), I expect British speech. Duh.
But when I am writing in an American fandom... I understand the assumption that I should write narrative, as well as dialogue, in American. It's just that I won't *g* Interestingly, now that I am reading in a British fandom, I notice the Americanisms more, so I really do understand.

Passive voice = telling. Forcing oneself out of passive voice = showing, which by the by, you do very well (the showing) as does sparrow.
Thank you. And I'll definitely think about that distinction, as I get my current story towards first draft.

avoid both problems by alternating he and she
How interesting. I would have anticipated that that would simply annoy both ends of the debate. *g*

What fun language is!
Ain't it just!

Date: 2010-08-26 01:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smwright.livejournal.com
But when I am writing in an American fandom... I understand the assumption that I should write narrative, as well as dialogue, in American. I'm actually quite glad you said this, because I don't understand this assumption. Nor do I agree with it. I'll give you a couple of examples...

I have a good friend on my flist who is publishing as we type her second novel. She is British. The novel is set in England. The characters are British (in the main). The novel is being published in America. Conundrum. Of course, the novel had to be edited for American English (spelling, etc.), and with that, she and I both agree. To whit, all words ending in -our (e.g., colour) were changed to -or (e.g., color). Yes, that's expected. Further, certain words that are uniquely British had to be changed to more common (not necessarily uniquely American) words. So, 'trainers' became 'sneakers' and that sort of thing. But, and this is where I took exception and she, too, though she made the editorial changes in the end, if a character were speaking in dialogue, (and note, I'm writing to you and, thus, use the 'ue' at the end of dialog *g*), the editor wanted the character to use American English even if the character were British. Wrong. So, if the character said 'arse', for example, she was required to change that to 'ass' in the dialogue. I heartily disagree. I think most Americans are familiar enough with the nuances of the two languages to know what the hell an arse is.

Second example. Ellie and I are currently reading The Red Pyramid by Rick Riordan (who wrote the Percy Jackson series). This is the first in a new series. So, the book is told in the first person POV, but there are two characters who alternate the telling (think of Invocatus Rex, which I'm pretty sure you read along with when I edited it here on LJ). The way TRP works is that two chapters are given to the character Carter, followed by two chapters given to Sadie, and they alternate every two chapters that way. Carter and Sadie are brother and sister, teenagers two years apart and separated six years prior to the beginning of the book after the death of their (British) mother. Carter has been travelling the world with his (American) archaeologist father, while Sadie has been living in London with her maternal grandparents. The author is American. The publisher is American. The intended audience is American. When Sadie speaks (or even in her narrative), she uses Brit speak. The spelling is all American, but the language is British, and it should be. Being British is part of her character, and if we remove her language from that, we lose much of who she is.

Thus, I wouldn't expect you or anyone else writing for anyone else to use American English for a character who is British. The spelling issue is something else entirely. Online, when one isn't concerned about publishers, etc., I think the choice is yours as to spelling. You're British; write in British English re: spelling if you choose. My other British flist writers do. I'm American, and unless I'm writing The Histories, I write in American English even though I know the overwhelming majority of people on my flist who read what I write are British. I think word choice in dialogue is really the more important issue rather than spelling until one gets to publishers and editing.

(Wow. You must have got me on a soapbox there, and I didn't even know it was coming!)

How interesting. I would have anticipated that that would simply annoy both ends of the debate. *g* Not really. *g* If you consider that in fiction one almost always knows the sex of the person to whom one is referring, there's really no excuse for the error. In non-fiction, the alternating is generally done by topic or by paragraph if a topic is anticipated to be especially lengthy. So, it doesn't occur as a sentence-by-sentence thing that becomes especially distracting. Once you get good at doing it, it's almost unnoticeable on reading.

Date: 2010-08-28 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
Umm, I think we are in agreement.

I agree with your stance in your two examples, anyway.

In the first example, the spelling was changed to American, for American publication. Yes, as you say, there can be no objection to that. But a British character, even if living in America, would still speak British. When I write Spike, he speaks British English. Xander speaks American English. Spike thinks 'boot', Xander thinks 'trunk', etc.

The web is not country specific, as publication of paper books is, so I will continue to write in my own language, but my American characters will speak American (or the best attempt at that that I can make).

However, the assumption I have sometimes seen is that, because BtVS is an American fandom, British writers should fully Americanise their language and spelling, even when not recounting characters' thoughts and speech ie in the narrative of the story, as well as in the dialogue. That I won't do, because, *shrugs* *g*

Again however, now that I am reading in a British fandom (Merlin), I notice Americanisms more, in the stories I read. I don't believe these writers should change their entire writing to British English, but I do notice it more and so I can see why some American readers find British written stories in the BtVS 'verse full of things that throw them out of the story.

Date: 2010-09-21 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smwright.livejournal.com
Again however, now that I am reading in a British fandom (Merlin), I notice Americanisms more, in the stories I read. I don't believe these writers should change their entire writing to British English, but I do notice it more and so I can see why some American readers find British written stories in the BtVS 'verse full of things that throw them out of the story.

Now I'm back, I had to re-read to remind myself where we were, and I also had to chuckle. What I think may be going on is just the slightest amount of cognitive dissonance (or at least an acknowledgement that what's good for the Brits is good for the Americans). *g* I have to confess that, when Ellie and I read The Red Pyramid, if we're reading Sadie's character (the British teen) and she even thinks something in narrative that is expressed in American English, it throws me out of the story. I guess I just feel that it should be character-driven, and the spelling should be either 1) author choice or 2) audience-driven (if published).

I do see the difference here in what you're saying re: OL fandom v. a book I might pick up to read, but I think at least most of the maxim still holds. If you're being thrown out of the story (in a British world) because of American narrative or dialogue, that's a problem. The reverse can also be true (but I don't believe that holds for spelling).

Date: 2010-09-26 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thismaz.livejournal.com
*g* Yes, we are agreeing - dialogue is different from narrative, but since an American OL writer is, in effect, 'publishing' in America, it is the same as picking up a paper book that was produced for the American market.
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