Spike as a character and how he changes
Aug. 12th, 2008 08:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thismazSomeone on my flist made a post about how Spike's character developed during the series and asked what, besides love, could have made him shift from villain to hero. It's locked, so if you can't see it, you won't and if you can, you already know who that was. *g*
I started to ramble in a comment, until I realised I was going on for far too long to be polite in someone else's LJ. So I moved it all here.
My interpretation of Spike and his personal journey...
Firstly, I believe that the reason Spike is such a popular character is because he is so malleable; he does change. We see a different manifestation of him in each season and, in seasons 4, 5, 6 and 7, he mutates from one to the other over the course of the preceding one.
From the point of view of the dynamic of the show, one of the interesting things about him is that he is the only character who is first presented to us as a villain but ends up a hero. All the others, Angel included, are presented to us as 'good'. They may deviate into evil, but we know they can be redeemed, because they were good before.
I don't like the term Love's Bitch, not only because it has become a fanfic cliché, but also because, although Spike uses it about himself he does so ironically (which is not to say untruthfully) and as a label it can too easily close our thinking down into a 'Spike is a victim of love' position in all his romantic relationships.
Similarly, I think there is far too much emphasis placed in fan fiction on Spike caring for Dru. She was sick when we first meet them, but we don't know how long ago they were in Prague. Anyone who thinks that the Dru we see in China, or in London in 1880, or the Dru in the latter half of s2 and later, is in need of 'looking after' hasn't watched the same series I did. The whole 'cared for Dru for 100 years' argument that portrays Dru as perpetual and incompetent child, is totally ridiculous. (Hee, I wouldn't have made a statement as strong as that on someone else's LJ either).
Yes, Spike needs to love. Yes, he needs to be needed. But those aren't his only important motivational traits.
William had a head full of dreams and ideals. He went to a party and got shot down, twice, by people who mocked and rejected everything he believed in and rejected him. Then he died - at a moment of emotional crux, when his faith in humanity had been knocked over and he had been cast out of 'his place' in the world. (On a side note Liam didn't have a problem with the world in general - only with his father. Liam died in a state of personal and individual rebellion against his father. Since my premise is that the state of mind, or the dominant emotion, of the human has a lasting influence upon the vampire, this is important. Angelus has no humanity in him because he turned against humanity at a personal level.) Spike might have turned against humanity in general, but he didn't turn against his own. That was actually what William was clinging to when he died.
Spike needs the security of belonging - not necessarily to someone, but he needs to have a place in the world.
As for his journey from villain to hero:
Being cast off by Dru was a necessary start point - he lost his place.
The chip was the pivot point. There's no question there - it put him in a position where he lost his power and it led him to consort with the Scoobies.
Powerless and lost he took any scrap he could get, until he brought it all crashing down around his own ears.
Did he go looking for his soul? I don't think so. What he says when he wins his challenge in the cave is: Make me what I was. So Buffy can get what she deserves.
Why did he get it? Maybe because the demon in Africa knew better than Spike did himself, what it was he needed. He certainly didn't grant Spike's wish in any way that reflects Spike's words. Spike became a vampire with a soul. That's hardly what he was. But with The First looming on the horizon in Sunnydale, it could be that the demon took a wider view of 'what Buffy deserves', that had nothing to do with love.
And yet, the soul is the point at which he achieves the potential to be redeemed, according to Jossverse lore. So maybe he was made back into what he was - after all, in this context, what is a human but a person with the ability to choose whether to fight against evil or co-operate with it.
So coming back to the question (with apologies for the ramble) what, besides love of Buffy, could motivate Spike to change?
I could see him making the shift without falling in love with Buffy, but I think the spuffy was an accelerant, that it was the means by which he eventually destroyed his own place in the Scooby camp and that was what sent him to Africa.
I started to ramble in a comment, until I realised I was going on for far too long to be polite in someone else's LJ. So I moved it all here.
My interpretation of Spike and his personal journey...
Firstly, I believe that the reason Spike is such a popular character is because he is so malleable; he does change. We see a different manifestation of him in each season and, in seasons 4, 5, 6 and 7, he mutates from one to the other over the course of the preceding one.
From the point of view of the dynamic of the show, one of the interesting things about him is that he is the only character who is first presented to us as a villain but ends up a hero. All the others, Angel included, are presented to us as 'good'. They may deviate into evil, but we know they can be redeemed, because they were good before.
I don't like the term Love's Bitch, not only because it has become a fanfic cliché, but also because, although Spike uses it about himself he does so ironically (which is not to say untruthfully) and as a label it can too easily close our thinking down into a 'Spike is a victim of love' position in all his romantic relationships.
Similarly, I think there is far too much emphasis placed in fan fiction on Spike caring for Dru. She was sick when we first meet them, but we don't know how long ago they were in Prague. Anyone who thinks that the Dru we see in China, or in London in 1880, or the Dru in the latter half of s2 and later, is in need of 'looking after' hasn't watched the same series I did. The whole 'cared for Dru for 100 years' argument that portrays Dru as perpetual and incompetent child, is totally ridiculous. (Hee, I wouldn't have made a statement as strong as that on someone else's LJ either).
Yes, Spike needs to love. Yes, he needs to be needed. But those aren't his only important motivational traits.
William had a head full of dreams and ideals. He went to a party and got shot down, twice, by people who mocked and rejected everything he believed in and rejected him. Then he died - at a moment of emotional crux, when his faith in humanity had been knocked over and he had been cast out of 'his place' in the world. (On a side note Liam didn't have a problem with the world in general - only with his father. Liam died in a state of personal and individual rebellion against his father. Since my premise is that the state of mind, or the dominant emotion, of the human has a lasting influence upon the vampire, this is important. Angelus has no humanity in him because he turned against humanity at a personal level.) Spike might have turned against humanity in general, but he didn't turn against his own. That was actually what William was clinging to when he died.
Spike needs the security of belonging - not necessarily to someone, but he needs to have a place in the world.
As for his journey from villain to hero:
Being cast off by Dru was a necessary start point - he lost his place.
The chip was the pivot point. There's no question there - it put him in a position where he lost his power and it led him to consort with the Scoobies.
Powerless and lost he took any scrap he could get, until he brought it all crashing down around his own ears.
Did he go looking for his soul? I don't think so. What he says when he wins his challenge in the cave is: Make me what I was. So Buffy can get what she deserves.
Why did he get it? Maybe because the demon in Africa knew better than Spike did himself, what it was he needed. He certainly didn't grant Spike's wish in any way that reflects Spike's words. Spike became a vampire with a soul. That's hardly what he was. But with The First looming on the horizon in Sunnydale, it could be that the demon took a wider view of 'what Buffy deserves', that had nothing to do with love.
And yet, the soul is the point at which he achieves the potential to be redeemed, according to Jossverse lore. So maybe he was made back into what he was - after all, in this context, what is a human but a person with the ability to choose whether to fight against evil or co-operate with it.
So coming back to the question (with apologies for the ramble) what, besides love of Buffy, could motivate Spike to change?
I could see him making the shift without falling in love with Buffy, but I think the spuffy was an accelerant, that it was the means by which he eventually destroyed his own place in the Scooby camp and that was what sent him to Africa.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-13 11:35 am (UTC)I'm sorry. I can't accept that everything he said to Buffy in that scene was a self-serving lie, especially given his mental state at the time.
Like you say, we will most definitely have to agree to disagree on this because to me, Spike actively wanting his soul is the most crucial point in his whole story, without which, I'm afraid, everything that comes later becomes a nonsense to me.
I'm not saying I think his motives were pure when he asked for it. I think there was a definite element of 'that'll show her' in him wanting it, but I do think he wanted it, while at the same time hating himself, and Buffy, for the fact that he felt that way.
Spike: How many times do I have to tell you, Dru, this car cannot bloody fly!
Dru: But Spike, the stars say to go straight up.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-13 11:48 am (UTC)*g* We can also have an animated discussion on Friday night, if we have the energy.
I never thought Spike's words to Buffy in the church were a self-serving lie. Far from it. *pulls up the scripts, to double check*
Straight up? *laughs* I love it!
no subject
Date: 2008-08-13 11:51 am (UTC)Er - possibly. Have to warn you, though, I get very wound up on this subject, as you've probably noticed.
I never thought Spike's words to Buffy in the church were a self-serving lie. Far from it
Yes, but they'd have to be, wouldn't they, if he didn't want his soul, since he says he did it 'for her - to be hers.'
Aargh! Can't go on talking about this - not without alcohol.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-13 12:25 pm (UTC)No worries, hon. We can have the alcohol without the discussion as easily as with. See you soon. So looking forward to it.
no subject
Date: 2008-08-13 02:18 pm (UTC)